r/OnePiece • u/Kirosh2 Lookout • May 31 '23
One Piece: Chapter 1085 Current Chapter
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u/MickMcMackMac Jun 06 '23
Is everyone just going to ignore Cobra mentioning he recognizes someone called Imu, who was amongst the original 20? Such a damn shame he died before he got one last "Wait... oh shit, you're XYZ!" Would have been a hell of a bombshell.
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u/Jetsonradar Jun 05 '23
Could Luffy's power be the power imagination/dreams which birthed all other fruits, and IMU's is the power of the void/nightmares? The antithesis of Luffy
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u/2021willbeworst Jun 05 '23
Funny how we are thinking it could be a void based power for Imu and how the forgotten century is called..void century
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u/rahmanm855 Jun 04 '23
I'm getting tired of every person now having a mythical zoan fruit. While it's not confirmed, it seems like six more powerful figures have them now. I prefer creative paramythias or unusual logias (like Karasu's), zoans are becoming way overused and it was already a problem in Wano.
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u/PNG- Jun 06 '23
I also think that the gorosei having mythical zoan fruits is a bit predictable, which is what ruins it for me. Would actually be good for a surprise/change if the theory is true that it was Imu's powers who transformed them.
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u/rahmanm855 Jun 04 '23
I'm not sure what those shadow figures are. Looks very lame and if that's the Gorosei's fruits, I'm disappointed. I wanted them to have grander abilities, to give the end of the series some bigger tension other than these joke looking figurines. Even worse, if this is Imu's fruit instead of a water water logia, then that's even more lame.
Also not sure why or when Fujitora was reportedly scarred. When did this occur/be mentioned?
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u/410cooky Jun 04 '23
I wonder if the secret that the Gorosei were afraid Doflamingo would reveal had something to do with Imu. Adult celestials don’t even know about him. Maybe we will get a flashback of him as an 8 year old kid sneaking around?
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u/Physical-Top-5947 Jun 04 '23
D =dawn.
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u/WaveBird Jun 04 '23
This has been the theory for a long time now. Especially considering Romance Dawn.
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u/ShlokHoms Pirate Jun 04 '23
Did anyone decipher what Kobra said with that scream blocking the box?
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u/SolidTony77 Jun 04 '23
All i can make out is "The poneglyphs Must be protected" and "bear the flag of dawn against T??????? -ing world. That's all i can figure out.
Make sure you guys are reading the official translation. It makes a difference.
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u/SolidTony77 Jun 04 '23
For all we know he said "The fucking world" and oda just covered the implied profanity. Hard to say at this stage.
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u/bodiroga22 The Revolutionary Army Jun 04 '23
"The Poneglyphs must be protected, fly the flag that heralds the worlds eventual dawn"
- Nefertari D. Lili6
Jun 04 '23
Willing to bet that "D" stands for dawn..
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u/bodiroga22 The Revolutionary Army Jun 04 '23
Wouldn't make sense, as we have heard the phrase "the will of the D." so many times -> the will of the dawn just...doesnt make sense to me.
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u/ShlokHoms Pirate Jun 04 '23
So what fruit does Imu have? It seems like he has some kind of void DF (which would also work with his name). Also, is it just me or do the 5 elders just vanish and become those void monsters as if they were just appendages of Imu the whole time?
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u/KamikazeGoose Jun 04 '23
It is just silhouettes.
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u/ShlokHoms Pirate Jun 04 '23
I see makes more sense. So that "arrow" is most likely Imus tail and not void DF?
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u/410cooky Jun 04 '23
Possibly, if it is some kind of void logia then it could be part of his ability. Oda was heavy handed with the silhouettes this chapter
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u/L7Z7Z Jun 04 '23
Assuming the Holy Knights being Celestial Dragons, it makes:
- Imu
- Lili
- 5 Elders
- 9 Holy Knights
TOT. = 16
4 founding families without relevant position
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u/L7Z7Z Jun 04 '23
About the theory of Lili being Toki:
in chapter 965 Toki states that her parents are from Wano.
So I consider very unlikely Toki and Lili being the same person.
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u/Bionicleinflater Jun 04 '23
Unless that's a cover up, they could also be time displaced from the future making alabasta wano descended
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u/L7Z7Z Jun 04 '23
I really regret Sabo not having been in Marineford.
I think it would have been amazing seeing the trio fighting together.
And would have made sense for Sabo being at Ace level at that time, and further improving during the time skip, so that the result of Marineford would have been the same.
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u/Competitive_Reading9 The Revolutionary Army Jun 04 '23
Cobra going out by reciting the contents of Lili's letter
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u/_monkey_d_dragon_ Jun 04 '23
After reading chapter 1085 and knowing that the kings and queens of the Alabasta kingdom (Nefertari Family) are of the D clan, Dragon in the previous chapters was so furious about Sabo killing the King Cobra. I think he knew this from the start that they are of the D Clan and that's why they never attacked or tried to destabilize the monarchy system in the Kingdom of Alabasta
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u/Wombatish Jun 06 '23
I think it’s more likely that the revolutionaries just don’t have an issue with the Nefertari family as rulers. They aren’t anti-monarchy, they’re anti-world government. The Nefertaris are known as benevolent leaders.
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u/Masakernikk Jun 04 '23
I think Lily was a double agent. She was sent by WG ( not yet wg, but the alliance of kingdoms ) to join Joyboy´s crew as an agent, but the greatest power of Nika is to turn everyone around into his allies. So in the end Lily betrayed wg and became D and in the moment of joyboys defeat, she spreaded the poneglyphs to ensure someone could take wg down in the future. Imu not being sure about her betrayal up until now.
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u/IAMSNORTFACED Thriller Bark Victim's Association Jun 04 '23
Kind of wild with CoC in existence some like Wapol wasn't sensed. Unless he came during the action then I'd sort of understand
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u/Carasind Jun 04 '23
You have to be calm to use CoO (which you likely mean) to its full effect which shouldn't have been the case for all involved parties.
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u/Nemo-pluribus-unum Jun 04 '23
Are you saying OP characters are more calm during a fight than when they're sitting or standing around doing nothing? Lol
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u/Carasind Jun 04 '23
In exactly this case: Yes. For the Gorosei this suddenly changed from a civilized debate to a planned execution in mere seconds after Imu suddenly arrived. They likely didn't plan to murder Cobra before but now have to do it themselves – which shouldn't be the norm for them. I can see them being less calm on the inside than an experienced fighter in an heated battle.
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u/IAMSNORTFACED Thriller Bark Victim's Association Jun 04 '23
Wasn't the first part of the conversation calm enough
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u/Carasind Jun 04 '23
The first part of the conversation would be anything before Imu appeared – after this anyone besides maybe Imu wasn't likely calm anymore. At the end of the last chapter even the Gorosei are shocked to see Imu walk in sealing the fate of Cobra.
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u/tonvor Jun 04 '23
Lily is Zunesha. She had an awakened devil fruit but lost her mind after she betrayed Joyboy.
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u/Hot_Elderberry4543 Jun 04 '23
What if dracule mihawk is Im? Idk it’s just they have similar heights, the same eye color (at least in the manga), and we already know that mihawk will be one of the final adversaries in one piece.
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u/tonvor Jun 04 '23
Not going to be Mihawk, might be someone related to him. Unless Mihawk is a vampire and is from the void century.
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u/newX7 Explorer Jun 04 '23 edited Jun 04 '23
I know this was an AMAZING chapter but…please don’t tell me this means Luffy goes with Vivi! I need my LuffyxNami!
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u/Kalayo0 Jun 04 '23
No Luffy can continue being asexual or otherwise end up with the verse’ most beautiful woman. Please let Sanji x Nami be eos canon.
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u/tonvor Jun 04 '23
Sanji is gonna get all the women. Zoro, Chopper, and Frankie will form a trouple🤣😂😂
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u/newX7 Explorer Jun 04 '23
Nah, Sanji goes with Pudding. SanjixPudding. Plus, Hancock isn't really that great of a person. Luffy is much better off with Nami.
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u/5t3fan0 Jun 03 '23
i wonder what D is gonna be... dragonslayer, dreamer, destroyer, dawnbringer
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u/MeuBy_L4u Jun 04 '23 edited Jun 04 '23
maybe Dawn, the crew of the first joyboy... All the crew members put the D on the name and it passed for generation, and evebody that have a D on the name nowadays is descendants of Dawn Pirates
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u/cosmic_crustacean Jun 03 '23
But what about Caribou????
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u/RockStar5132 Jun 04 '23
Cluck cluck cluck yeah, cluck cluck cluck yeah, cluck cluck cluck yeah, oooooooooh caribou!
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u/cosmic_crustacean Jun 04 '23
Tf?
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u/RockStar5132 Jun 05 '23
It's an obscure Jimmy Neutron reference
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u/cosmic_crustacean Jun 05 '23
I feel old...
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u/RockStar5132 Jun 05 '23
Same. I watched this when it was new and when I see caribou all I think of is that exact clip
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u/Haunting_Test_2875 Jun 03 '23
What if Kozuki Toki is Princess Lili. As in the chapter it was mentioned that she did some blunder and ponelglyphs was spread across the world. Maybe she did it intentionally. And she was moving in the future to meet someone. Maybe it's Luffy she wanted to meet.
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u/xekaiforce Jun 04 '23
CMIIWW, but, isn't Lady Toki jumped to the future before Void Century ended? Which means, it was still in the middle of chaos, which means it was before WG was established, which also means, Queen Lily should be still exists there. Queen Lily disappeared after she decided to stay in Arabasta to continue her reign instead of moving to Marie Geoise.
Note: WG was established after The Great Kingdom was erased, before that, they were just alliance of 20 kingdoms fighting the Great Kingdom.
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u/Haunting_Test_2875 Jun 06 '23
No one knew about lili's existence. She just send the letter. So mostly she would had went into the future after sending the letter. Or she may have died and asked Toki to go into the future and do something. But we know in one piece samurai tend to follow orders even with their life so Toki not following Lili order at the end doesn't make sense.
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u/Efficient_Ad_215 Jun 03 '23
That’s an interesting theory! She was jumping Time periods! She could be lilly or someone related to her! This is a very interesting theory! You should have made this into a separate post next week!
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u/Popopirat66 Jun 04 '23 edited Jun 04 '23
No, they shouldn't. It's a ridiculous theory with no valid point to it. First of all she's not a princess. She was Queen Lili and Toki neither said anything related to the Poneglyphs nor wanted to go to Arabasta. Why would she want to go to Wano and wear wano esque clothing before she reached Wano if she'd be the queen of a desert country?
It's a bullshit theory.
Edit: and the fact that nobody gives a single measily thought through response but people downvote this just shows how bad the theory really is
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u/Bionicleinflater Jun 04 '23
Or your post is worded as hostily and stupidly as possible...
Tho remember where the ancient weapon was and where the dawn was supposed to come. It wouldn't be nonsensical that wano is a remnant of the time and it's members went on to alabasta, their clothing and culture adapting to the desert, like how shimotsuki village is more or less samurai but not as wano-y
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u/Popopirat66 Jun 04 '23
We've seen what Wano looked like 800 years ago and know that they defended their culture by creating a massive rock wall.
If someone could come up with a plausible reason i'd be less annoyed by it, but these past weeks were terrible for theories. First was Imu is Lili and now Toki is Lili. I don't understand why Lili can't be just Lili, Toki just be Toki and Imu just be Imu.
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u/Bionicleinflater Jun 04 '23
But we don't know what alabasta looked like. Both could be remnants oc the kingdom. You just want an excuse to yell
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u/daretod Jun 03 '23
But she said she is from wano
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u/AgreeingWings25 Jun 04 '23
JoyBoy would've been to Wano seeing as the Kozuki Clan made the Poneglyphs. Whoever Lili was would've likely had to have been in Wano in order to spread them across the world.
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u/Haunting_Test_2875 Jun 03 '23
If im correct she wanted to go to wano. Maybe somehow she knew that Luffy(df nika) will meet her there? Just a theory😅
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u/antari-- Jun 03 '23
she is from a Wano clan but had never been in Wano (as an adult at least)... her demeanour does not speak "powerful Queen of Alabasta fighting the Ancient Kingdom and betraying Imu in the end" to me
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Jun 03 '23
Yeah, these past few chapters have been amazing, lore dump and all. But, i miss my fuckin strawhats man. I miss luffy especially. I need my crew back please next chapter oda.
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u/rahmanm855 Jun 04 '23
Nah, I like seeing different characters interact. Wano was a dumpster fire even with the Straw Hats all there, I cared way more about the outside world and we're finally getting it. We can avoid the Straw Hats for dozens of chapters, I'm still glued to the lore surrounding the other characters so far.
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u/BabiesDrivingGoKarts Jun 04 '23
Don't worry, this will be worth it for all the people that binge read the series later.
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u/Olukon Jun 03 '23
It's bad because I agree and want to see more SH action, but this is still extremely hype!
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u/Bloodrain_souleater Jun 03 '23
Either oDa hides the df form of the gorosei behind the sillhoutes or somehow im can metamorph them into monsters of some sort.
Maybe im some metamorph type Df or its a zoan.
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u/Verum_Regis Jun 04 '23
They are the highest-ranking gov in the world, they must all have OP mystical DF.
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u/popoliooo Jun 03 '23
The huge silhouette is imu. There is no way one of the gorosei suddenly jump to the throne. Considering imu was sitting there.
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u/invalidwat Jun 03 '23
there are 6 creatures in total. big one from the top is imu, no doubt. all the five creatures from the floor are similar to their human form.
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u/BillyHalley Jun 03 '23
Yes, but in the panel they're referring to, there is one less figure, the one with the big open mouth
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u/xekaiforce Jun 04 '23
Lets just say the panel is too small there, or one of them is blocked by Sabo. But in some other panel shows 5 figures with 1 more big figure.
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u/Piepz- Jun 03 '23 edited Jun 03 '23
At this point I think the D. is given to allies in the exactly same way we saw Ace do with Sabo. That little scene must mean something and i think that it has a hidden meaning.
D. = Dawn, allies who want to see the dawn of the world
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u/xOriginsTemporal 7D4W Jun 03 '23
Also connects with the theme that you don’t have to be blood related to be family, might be a little different in this case tho
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u/grammlybad Jun 03 '23
Wapol is doing great to make himself still relevant to the story. He is not telling the truth to Morgan and making sure Gorosei not hunting him by blaming Sabo on Cobras death.. 😄
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u/Revo_Int92 Jun 03 '23
Such a weird chapter on a visual standpoint, kinda messy. The plot itself, the action, it was fine. But the art looked strange, hard to follow. Anyway, depending on the strength of the gorosei (or whatever you spell it), if they are stronger than admirals, if this "Im" is even stronger... that opens up yet another hole in the plot: why these powerful individuals are not interfering (just using the navy as lackeys), why they didn't do anything when Roger was around, etc.. But that's a natural problem, 1000+ chapters, not everything will be properly explained and tied together
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u/perpetualWSOL Bounty Hunter Jun 03 '23
If they revealed themselves as enforcers dont they blow their cover? Theyve always had a "balance" including the Warlord, Yonkou, Navy trifecta that we knew
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u/Revo_Int92 Jun 03 '23
The gorosei are exposed, they show their faces to navy officials, they even talked with the shichibukai, Laffitte, etc They were afraid of the poneglyphs to a point of erasing a island, but they let Roger go after the same poneglyphs? Even if Roger is a formidable opponent, if the gorosei have the manpower (beyond the navy) to go after Roger and slow him down, even stop him before he reaches the last island, then it makes no sense why they remain passive. They didn't even tried to stop Roger because of plot, lol it's that simple, if Roger can't complete his journey, there's no story. But shonens needs to keep escalating, that's why Oda is showing the gorosei as powerful individuals, some weeks ago he showed Im destroying a island from distance, etc.. if they have that kind of power all along, that creates huge inconsistencies. They have a giant straw hat in the Freezer of Destiny, if that somehow correlates with joyboy, why they allow young Roger, Shanks and now Luffy to run free? If they knew "Nika" had rubbery properties, why they never considered Luffy a potential threat? Do you see the issue, the world government is completely inept for the sake of plot
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u/perpetualWSOL Bounty Hunter Jun 04 '23 edited Jun 04 '23
Perhaps the egg on Rogers ship is one of the keys to his being able to seemingly walk amongst the worlds secrets without severe backlash such as the power used on Lulusia. Or due to their knowledge of the Void Century knew that even if Roger was gathering info, he wouldnt be able to do anything with it- just as Roger states. Could even be that "since Shanks is among them" theyre untouchable as he was born a CD as some theorize. But they didnt anticipate him to motivate the world like he did and he never confronted the government directly as Sabo and the Revs are spurning. Its normal for the govt to celebrate his execution so of course his final words would get a platform, they played right into his hands. They even made a point of trying to hunt down lineage of his.
And its also stated he was constantly pursued by the Navy and that Garp and him clashed on many occasions. Weve already seen how incompetent the WG is when trying to hold Kaido who legit used their prison systems to sustain himself until he joined then started a crew lol definition of recidivism except he was escaping and being intentionally caught rather than caught and released
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u/Empty-Blacksmith-592 Jun 03 '23
Many plots and parts of the story were not planned to be written but Oda had to create them from scratch to make this manga longer so you get the inconsistency. At the end of the way it is enjoyable and makes it more interesting.
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u/antari-- Jun 03 '23
If they dealt with everything themselves why even have the navy? Lol send Imu to stop some pirates. Ye they are inept (kinda like a real government eh?), they are always working with incomplete information. You think they knew what Roger is doing every single moment? Where he even is? Where he is going? How close he was to Raftel? Or that Roger was even the only thing on their hands? There was Rocks, Whitebeard and who knows what other issues... They thought they handled Roger well enough, they got him, executed him in front of a crowd in the weakest sea for humiliation... From their standpoint things were going according to keikaku... Keep in mind ther NUMBER ONE PIORITY is to look like the good guys, everything else is secondary at best.
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u/MariJoyBoy Jun 03 '23
I think they didn't expose to anyone the fact that they are huge monsters =) maybe they pretend to be "just politicians", even to the navy
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u/willyrs Jun 03 '23
They probably knew Roger's trip to raftel was useless because of the reason he said to be too early for
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u/alisj99 Jun 03 '23
They shouldn't know about this, they can't read ponyglyphs.
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u/willyrs Jun 04 '23
If Imu is 800 years old, he probably can
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u/alisj99 Jun 04 '23
Toki was 800 years old and couldn't read it
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Jun 04 '23
[deleted]
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u/alisj99 Jun 04 '23
It doesn't make sense that he's alive for 800 years and allowed the existence of Kozuki to continue. It's something that must have been hidden to him.
Just like the fact Lili is a D.
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u/Astoryjustforyou Jun 03 '23
I think you're right but I wanna hope for more.
If I had to guess, they'll spin it because they play the long game. Maybe they're the pinnacle of power but they're a destabilizing element.
The world government doesn't want fear and rebellion, they want compliance. Some pirates, some marines, the status quo- maybe the elders and the holy knights are so powerful that it destroys that optimal gameboard for the world government, where people think they are free but aren't.
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u/Revo_Int92 Jun 03 '23
It's clear the world government is trying to achieve hegemony. The gorosei along with Im, they are not strong enough to keep half of the world under control (the other half is dominated by the Emperors), that's why they use the Navy, they created the shichibukai system, now they are taking advantage of Vegapunk's technology (and they were foolish to use this tech against it's creator, like if Vegapunk didn't had any counter measure), etc.. The issue with the plot is how the gorosei did not used their full power to fight against the D (that sounds like a sexual joke), ever since Roger things are getting out of hand, the world is literally burning around them... but hell, let Garp and Sengoku deal with Roger, let's just sit and watch
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u/Inthewirelain Jun 03 '23
Don't forget these chapters are scanned from magazines so they are warped, and then the teams white out a load of stuff like sound effects and bits of the image that just look wrong and redraw them, so it's not really fair to judge odds art on a scanlation. Wait to see the Viz one on Sunday. Some stuff like the silhouettes will still be odd but likely a lot of the other bits will look a lot cleaner. Viz works from official digitised scans.
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u/OrganicPlasma Jun 03 '23
Im not doing anything in person is easily justified by their very existence needing to be kept secret. The Gorosei may want to keep their true power a secret as well.
People in this thread are also speculating about the nature of their powers. With the theories that the Gorosei are extensions of Im/being empowered by Im, they wouldn't be able to use their power without revealing Im's existence.
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u/Revo_Int92 Jun 03 '23 edited Jun 03 '23
It's contextualized why this "Im" character is maintaining secrecy for plot reasons, but the others are exposed to the world (quite literally). So when you have Roger wrecking havoc, now Luffy using rubber powers in Ennies Lobby (and they don't do anything about it, if Oda had any clue about the importance of Luffy's devil fruit, the government was suppose to send assassins towards Luffy constantly). These are direct threats towards their existence, their dominance over the world... so yeah, it's inconsistent. If the gorosei were powerless, they are just political figures like the own celestial dragons, Im is the shadowy figure with all the power, ok, that's contextualized... but if each of the gorosei has "admiral level" power, like I said, this is yet another hole in the plot
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u/Medium_Education_502 Jun 03 '23
Not a plot hole if you think about it that way it’s like saying why any government doesn’t send a military force to eradicate let’s say mafia head guys it’s not that easy
Additional Luffy has been doing petty things at this point they only were concerned as he was making a name of him (whole cake and the Wano) he was never a threat, even at marine fold all he did was pretty much secondary and was handled easily by admirals (his feats, compared to WB crew, Shanks, etc were minor)
Even now with him defeating Kaido they were more concerned of assassinating a not powerful Vegapunk (who was sided with them, just afraid of him getting info just like cobra)
We know see that the Gorosei and IM, are more concerned about image as they are more focus on hiding past information and names I feel like ODA is showing them as the root of all evil/ corruption in the world as they are supposed to be the good guys and all they have done is deceive even their own, pulling the strings from the background, keeping a lie for 800 years or more, that’s why as they act (if we resume as 2 sides like pirates and WG) they hide as a 3rd force which is deceiving both pirates and Wg itself and acting on their own purposes (like against vegapunk )
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u/Revo_Int92 Jun 03 '23
The government was aware about this idiotic "mystical zoan" devil fruit, how "Nika" had rubbery properties, how the fruit conveniently disappeared for 800 years, etc.. so they should be at least concerned about any user who showcased these kind of abilities. Luffy challenged the government back in Enies Lobbie, he is a D and he showed his rubber powers, even so, the government didn't cared. It's more than obvious that Oda didn't had this Chosen One devil fruit planned back then, the government never considered the potential threat of Luffy, never took it seriously. And now Oda basically confirmed the gorosei have powers, they are strong enough to harm Sabo... so it's like I said, if they have this kind of firepower and they never use it before to protect their hegemony, that's a obvious inconsistency. Roger was a major threat, Dragon is their biggest threat yet, Shanks finally decided to go after the One Piece, Black Beard is amassing power... and the gorosei are just watching the world burning around them, trying to use Vegapunk technology against it's own creator... The world government is just inept, that's the problem, how they sustained power for so long being so clueless about everything? They have power and they don't use it, etc.. Oda is trying to escalate the threat (as always, classic shonen trope), but this exposition of Im and his clowns is only make them look weak
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u/Medium_Education_502 Jun 03 '23
If it was that easy there would be no pirates lol, to you main point
They stated it that it basically was nowhere to be found that’s why they said that it almost seemed that it “tan from them” and they spoke about its awakening stating that they had seen users but never were of impact to catch their attention (like Yonkous ruled for many years and not many were able to defeat them until now)
Yes he challenged government but were no threat to worry about (just how easy they were defeated by Kizaru back then =no worries ) so was the RA and yet they cannot find them
As I stated there’s no meaning for them to dirty the hand on those type of issues (admirals and below to take care of any of this)
Sabo was injured by im sama, it makes him very strong that’s why he is like their god, it doesn’t mean the gorosei are stronger than an admiral (they have powers but yet they are old) but we don’t know their extent of their powers (it would make sense that they are verryyy powerful) , if they are slightly more powerful than an admiral it makes sense but they cannot go and defeat every pirate/ Yonko out there
There Sabo had everything against him (tired from fighting, the 5 elders and I’m sama, there’s no way he could even try anything) injurying a Sabo is like saying that because Zoro could harm Kaido he’s stronger than him, he was clearly at a disadvantage and maybe he could fight 1 v1 them (we don’t know either scenario yet)
The whole idea of making the WG look inept as you said is because is corrupted from its very core and there’s lies everywhere (officials hurting people, stealing, abusing power, the existence of a king in a supposed empty throne, etc) yet they are the “good side” they sustained power but do not act to avoid some of those secrets to come out to light and only act to their own well-being
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u/Isommmm Jun 03 '23
It's not a "hole in the plot". The World Government is a world ruling power. The Gorosei haven't felt the need to personally interfere until now, because the threats weren't big enough.
Maybe they've been overestimating the marines and underestimating the pirates but that's bound to happen when you're all powerful lol.
Luffy could be the 100th Gumu Gumu user in the last 50 years. Him unlocking it's full power was probably not that much of a concern for the WG to try to assassinate him. On top of that, Luffy was either out of reach or always mixed up in some bs where it looked like he was going to fail.
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u/nonukez Jun 03 '23
IMO, it's somewhere in the middle. I wouldn't call it a "hole in the plot", but it's certainly a retcon that makes past actions look questionable in hindsight.
It's stated that the world government was looking to get the fruit for the past 800 years, but never succeeded. Nika is also a big enough threat that they've erased all traces of Nika's existence, even going so far as to re-categorize the fruit name. The elders even say that they've never succeeded possibly because of the fruit's will, meaning that they've actively tried to get the fruit but couldn't. From all this information, clearly the fruit is very important from the WG's perspective, and they've tried to get it at all costs.
Luffy could've been the 100th user, sure, and other users were not deemed a big enough threat. But they knew as far back as East Blue (his first wanted poster) that Luffy had the fruit and he carries the D. name. I forget whether the government knew all along, but we the readers found out that he was the son of Dragon and grandson of Garp after Water 7, and (again, forgetting exactly when it was revealed) the adopted brother of Roger's son Ace. He's also been taking out strong people left and right, and making allies with powerful people. For someone like this, you'd think they'd mark him as a high possibility of awakening the fruit.
Again, not a "plot hole", but it does seem pretty ridiculous that after all this information, the world government didn't try harder to get Luffy despite having many ample opportunities to do so. Even assuming that they didn't know before Water 7 about all this, they knew at the point when he was headed for Marineford, when he was located after the timeskip in Sabaody, after he went and came back from Fishman Island, Punk Hazard, Dressrosa, etc. Within that time they had a single Vice Admiral, Smoker, chase after him, then they sent one admiral only after the Dressrosa fight wrapped up (and to fight both Luffy and Law), and then another admiral after Kaido was defeated (to fight Luffy, Law, and Kidd).
Either Nika is not as big of a threat as they say it is, or there's some limitation to the Elders'/Im's powers that we're not made aware of, or their actions don't follow logic. At this moment though, their actions are confusing at best.
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u/Sablestein Explorer Jun 03 '23
I’ve noticed ppl love to call anything they don’t like “plotholes” lol —not always of course, but a LOT of the time
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u/Isommmm Jun 03 '23
Yeah, it's silly. Most the time it comes from a lack of information too. We have no idea if Oda will give some other reason for the Gorosei to have hid their strength.
But if the reason doesn't fit with the readers head cannon then it'll be a "plothole" 🤦🏿♂️.
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u/Sablestein Explorer Jun 03 '23
Lol god it’s so irksome when someone calls something a plothole when it’s a serialized incomplete series 😭
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u/HotCardiologist6536 Jun 03 '23
The straw hat crew is not even travelling for that long. Luffy was 17 and he is now 19 after 2 year time skip.
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u/Altruistic-Teach5899 Jun 03 '23 edited Jun 03 '23
This is why I love One Piece, you keep thinking this is all going to be solved by some pretty emo looking guy with a cool hairstyle and then you discover that the greatest menace to the villains ends up being some ugly idiot bastard rando that just happened to be on the wrong room.
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u/Busy_Cartographer_56 Pirate Jun 03 '23
My money is on IM df being either Lucifer/devil or Godzilla The 5 elders are kaiju from the Godzilla verse
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u/Escarlatina Jun 03 '23
That is right not about the godzilla theory tho you caught the glimpse of it.
I have realized in this chapter.
Those gorosei have Devil type zoan fruits.
6 of them including imu. Hints are
- The triangle tail like stuff that imu is using.
- imu's very name
- The Sabo's line "Hell was located here at the very top of the world" Because He literally saw them in demon shape.
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u/cocodacrackman Jun 03 '23
I get the 1st theory, but why Godzilla?
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u/Busy_Cartographer_56 Pirate Jun 04 '23
Don't know really, Kong is the chief General, so I'm thinking he is king Kong df. So maybe a theme with kaiju monsters. And if it is Godzilla, it's like a walkinh nuclear bomb dragon
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u/cocodacrackman Jun 04 '23
Honestly, that'd be so hilarious. I just enjoy seeing Imu's Rinnegan-like eyes.
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u/IchBinEinDrache Jun 03 '23
Patiently waiting to see how Oden's wife fits into all this... a time traveller from the past, my money is on the fact that she's from the void century also.
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u/Icy-Succotash6354 Jun 03 '23
She is already confirmed to be from the void century
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u/IchBinEinDrache Jun 03 '23
I missed it - when was this confirmed?
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Jun 03 '23
*Confirmed in community not in story ig
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u/IchBinEinDrache Jun 03 '23
So, not confirmed.
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u/alisj99 Jun 03 '23
It was confirmed she was born 830 years and jumped forward when she was 26 to meet Oden
So she's at the tail end of the void century. Or its demise.
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u/Odelind Jun 03 '23
Considering the arrow tail... Does Imu have the Devil-Devil devil fruit?
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u/Escarlatina Jun 03 '23
Yes probably all gorosei have aku aku no mi models.
Sabo also called place as hell.
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u/Lil_Circumcision Jun 03 '23
I mean sabo did say the top of the world is hell (or hellish looking based on other translation), maybe he didn't mean it as metaphor lol.
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u/Inthewirelain Jun 03 '23
I wondered if maybe Imu and the Gorosei are closer to possessed by a demon than a devil fruit, like a more primal version of devil fruits, maybe more ancient. It would also work along the theme of them having corrupted desires and dreams etc.
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u/IchBinEinDrache Jun 03 '23
Something tells me he is the sea-devil that shuns devil fruit users. If he is an actual demon, I don't think there's a fruit for that considering they are all 'devil' fruits.
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u/Odelind Jun 03 '23
Maybe he got a proto devil fruit that might work in a more conceptual level, like Luffy's one, from before the fruits were limited by their own set of rules (fruit A does B and only B). In other words, a fruit that fully embodies the entities/species that inhabit the fruits.
Either that or he's one of said entities. Maybe escaped and caused the demise of the civilization that created and slaved him and in turn, erased every proof of this and the technology behind the fruits, like the villain of Full Metal Alchemist, Father
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u/NeiRa7 Jun 03 '23
I wouldn't be surprised if Imu somehow created devil fruits, and lost control of it. So many referencees to devil, Sabo saying that is looking like hell while in the throne room is also a clue.
I don't say that is a fact, but I would not be surprised
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u/Odelind Jun 03 '23
So many possibilities! I was discussing a few theories in another reply plus everything else in the post, but I think that Oda will somehow surprise us.
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u/iNCharism Jun 03 '23
Imu somehow created devil fruits
Also, wasn’t there a chapter that says devil fruits are the manifestation of dreams? Mu can also be translated to dreams
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u/Sir_Crocodile3 Jun 03 '23
Is it possible that the 5 members of the Gorosei are kings/former kings of the places that Luffy and crew have been to already? Drum, Alabasta, Dressrosa, Wano, and one we haven't seen yet? Or maybe one that's sucked up in the Florian Triangle. Just a work thought while I was cooking and listening to YouTube :)
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u/Sir_Crocodile3 Jun 03 '23
Why is everyone acting like this is impossible? There was a void Century, do y'all how many years are in a century? A lot could have happened.
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u/ExperienceSelect9342 Jun 03 '23
Good question, if we guess that Imu has similar powers like Gecko Moria. It would be a possibility that the Gorosei are actually shadows from former royalty, that he controlls.
Like he took the shadows of the original Kings from the void century.
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u/Bloodrain_souleater Jun 03 '23
Nah donquixote family ruled dress Rosa. Nefertiti family rules alabasta since the beginning.
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u/Sir_Crocodile3 Jun 03 '23
No, the riku family rules Dressrosa, the Donquixote family took it over.
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u/alisj99 Jun 03 '23
The other way.
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u/Sir_Crocodile3 Jun 03 '23
I was gonna ask you guys but the one piece wiki said the other way. Interesting. Got ya. Thanks.
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u/Thebiurdude Jun 03 '23
No it's not, Donquixote were the original rulers, but when they became celestial dragons the Riku family became the royal family, Doffys family were the original royal family.
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u/Sir_Crocodile3 Jun 03 '23
Ohhh okay, where does it say this? I can only find it saying the opposite :/
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u/Thebiurdude Jun 05 '23
You can go on the One piece wikia, it's show you the stuff we know about Doffy and his family.
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u/Sir_Crocodile3 Jun 05 '23
It said it was rh riku family and the Donquixote family took over. :/
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u/Wombatish Jun 06 '23
It was literally the inciting incident of Dressrosa. The whole reason Doffy was able to become king was because his family were the original rulers.
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u/Sir_Crocodile3 Jun 06 '23
I'm not arguing lmao, I'm saying that it only says the opposite on the wiki, which is why when I looked it up. I thought the opposite.
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u/13Xcross Jun 03 '23
Why would they be and what would be the point of it?
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u/Sir_Crocodile3 Jun 03 '23
Just wondering who they are and what made them special enough to be who they are.
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u/TheloniousMonk28 Pirate Jun 03 '23
Well it’s not likely for Arabasta since the ruler back then was Lili
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u/Sir_Crocodile3 Jun 03 '23
Not just from that period. I mean like different ages. Like the group has gotten bigger over time. Rulers who were presented to Imu for one reason or another and pledged fealty if that makes sense.
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u/the_savage_adult Pirate Jun 03 '23 edited Jun 03 '23
WG is such an incompetent organization...lol... Imu knew Lili was from the D. Clan and betrayed the 20 kings/queens and still he accepted Garp to be enlisted in the Navy.
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u/Serdar967 Jun 04 '23
Also why didn't they just blow up arabasta like they did with lulusia, if they are seen as traitors.
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u/Responsible-Bird-314 Jun 04 '23
Imu knew Lili was from the D. Clan
Imu didn't know. Read again.
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u/the_savage_adult Pirate Jun 04 '23
If he didn't know, he wouldn't have asked Cobra to say her full name. As soon as Cobra said it, he got triggered about betrayal lili did and went all murder-y on her descendant.
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u/Responsible-Bird-314 Jun 04 '23
He asked because he didn't know. He speculated or suspected at best. Why would he ask a question if he's already knew ?
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u/Medium_Education_502 Jun 03 '23
Remember that basically the gorosei are working with CD and admiral not really care for the men that works under Wg besides them (pretty much can be said they know nothing like Jon snow :p) so whoever joins or doesn’t it’s none of their concerns (as I posted in some comments, they are more into corruption and keeping their image as the gods, that’s why they only care about keeping info hiding that’s why they are very technical with what Information they give to the admirals even)
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u/Zehapo Jun 03 '23
So they shouldn't accept him as an ally and instead they should leave him to his own devices? While potentially making him an enemy for declining him? What you're suggesting they do is essentially what they did for Mihawk. They took someone powerful who's content to be an ally and turned them into an enemy.
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u/Weremont Jun 03 '23
Tbf accepting Garp into the Navy worked out fine. He loyally fought all the WG's enemies for decades, and as the Hero of the Marines had a big part in keeping the organization afloat. He never said or did anything about the Marines immoral actions in support of the CD's. His gesture of refusing to become an Admiral just allowed him to ignore the problem instead or trying to fix or even speak out against it. Garp is no Fujitora.
So having Garp as their tame D enforcer worked out well for them.
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u/the_savage_adult Pirate Jun 03 '23
For now but we don't know what's gonna happen in the Final War. Or Maybe he will be killed by Aokiji this Arc.
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u/Weremont Jun 03 '23
That'll be due to external factors. By himself, Garp might hate the CDs but he helped keep them in power and he had an "out of sight, out of mind" policy about CD depravity. So from their point of view, he's the best outcome of a D they could hope for.
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u/enpedia Jun 03 '23
It’s wild how this colorful world has such a dark and sinister underbelly one piece keeps transforming but some how nothing revealed feels outta place for the one piece world
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u/Revo_Int92 Jun 03 '23
With the revelation that devil fruits can impersonate literal gods, it's not far fetched when the author presents characters that could well be demons, this "Im" could be a Lucifer wannabe, etc.. if that's the case, it would be kinda childish and uncreative, the biggest evil character in One Piece has demon powers (quite literally). But most likely Oda will not rely on such cliches
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u/Bloodrain_souleater Jun 03 '23
What's cliche about that. Lol nico Robin is named demon child and used a demon form with her Df. Why cannot there be a literal demon df in existence.
It makes sense for such a Df to exist
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u/enpedia Jun 03 '23
I can understand that but I assume and forgive me if I’m wrong, You feel that way cause it’s been done to death already, knowing they might be literal shadow demons in a world like one piece feels so sinister and ethereal because one piece has never even touched supernatural stuff like this, the closes they get is a fake god enel, and kings background, and the fake celestial gods. I think Imu and the gorosei being demons fits and adds an otherworldly dimension that hopefully is only imu and doesn’t lead the way for a world of demons(looking at you otsutsuki 😂)
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u/Popopirat66 Jun 04 '23
Those are df powers. We've had them from the start and with the recent God Nika stuff a demon like df doesn't seem too farfetched in my opinion.
No reason to compare that to the worst part of Naruto xD
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u/enpedia Jun 04 '23
I’m hoping there not df powers
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u/Popopirat66 Jun 04 '23
Why? I hope Oda doesn't asspull some weird magic ability at the end of the manga. We have df's for that.
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u/ziptofaf Jun 04 '23
I mean, it's not far fetched to assume that this is something related to devil fruits. After all we know at least Zoan fruits are sentient and often with a will of their own. Could be a more primordial/original type of devil fruits - just minus the fruit part.
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u/ThunderCrasH24 Jun 07 '23
Why is noone talking about Fujitora?