People on Reddit are saying that &100k/year is not livable wage

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u/Kcnflman May 31 '23

This is definitely relative to your situation and location.

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u/cosmicmoonglow May 31 '23

It depends on the area and whether or not you have a family to support.

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u/JeepersMysster May 31 '23

While location is definitely relevant, I also think what’s key here is that you’ve never moved out. Rent for a tiny studio apartment where I live (Bay Area) is $2,000 avg — and while that USED to be insanely extreme, it’s becoming more of the standard everywhere. A friend and her BF just got a deal on a 1 BR unit for $2,500, and that was after a year of searching for the cheapest place they could find.

That being said, if you’re a two income household but don’t have to worry about kids, pets, aging parents, have decent/cheap public transportation near you, then yeah, you don’t need 6 figures!

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u/tigrovna_ May 31 '23

I live in LA, one of the highest COL areas.

100k is a livable income. It's not rich level income here, but it is fairly comfortable.

I've been poor before - I may not be in a position to buy make large purchases, but I am not concerned about paying next month's rent. If something breaks, I can pay to get it fixed or replaced. While I do shop sales at the grocery store, I can still afford to eat a healthy, balanced diet. I don't buy designer clothes, but if I need to buy clothing, I'm not stressed about spending money on a couple of new outfits. There are people living in this city on 30k a year, I don't feel comfortable comparing my struggles with what they go through.

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u/NizioCole May 31 '23

Dude if I made 100k a year id bee straight chillin

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u/siamesecat1935 May 31 '23

It's really all dependent on your circumstances, where you live, is its a HCOL? MCOL? LCOL? Do you own, rent, live with roommates, alone, marital and family status. There are so many factors that come into play. But yes, it COULD be that 100K for some people is not a living wage.

For example, the Bay Area is VERY pricy. Let's just say you are married with 3 kids. And you make 100K. And because daycare is more than your spouse would make, they stay home with the kids. Housing, car payments, insurance, food, etc. could make it difficult to live on that 100K. It also depends on what your take home pay is. You probably have insurance taken out of that, for everyone, plus saving for retirement, plus taxes. All of that reduces what you actually bring home.

I am single, rent, and live in a HCOL area. I make about 107K, BUT my take home is less than 70K. I pay very little for my health insurance, much less than most people, i also put over 10% into my 401K, plus taxes. While I can live on what I bring home, I'm not living a life of luxury. But I'm not complaining at all. Just pointing out the facts.

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u/writerfan2013 May 31 '23

Would be happy to try to live on 100 grand as an experiment!

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u/Commercial-Tell2504 May 31 '23

$100k in Pittsburgh PA is fine but in San Francisco it's poverty.

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u/deannevee May 31 '23

I live in Florida.

Daycare can cost like $25k per year for just one child.

Then you have skyrocketing insurance rates for both cars and houses (I pay $300 per month and my driving and credit is great).

Food bill for a family of 4? Easily over $1000 per month.

Healthcare is also expensive. I happen to work for a hospital, so I get mine cheap…but you could easily pay $1000 per month or more to get everyone in your family covered, plus have a $3000 deductible.

All in all, in Florida $100k for a single person wouldn’t be dirt poor, but you couldn’t exactly take European vacations every summer either. You would be able to have some savings. But for a family of 3, $100k would be tight.

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u/Stuckinacrazyjob May 31 '23

Eh if you're single, no kids, frugal, you can live life on 50k ( warning I live in Memphis)

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u/pinpoe May 31 '23

My husband and I make good money and we are not wealthy for our area or age. Usually when people talk about $100k being a base necessity they mean it enables one to do ALL the “good/normal” financial practices — cover expenses, pay off debt, save money, invest, not live paycheck to paycheck, not be derailed by an unexpected expense.

I earned sub-100k for 10 years in NYC so was not able to accumulate any meaningful savings. I couldn’t afford to contribute to a 401k until I was 29.

Now we have “simple” expenses in a med-high COL city — $2700/mo 2B, own an old car that needs a few grand a year in insurance and maintenance, own an old dog who needs the same, have a kid on the way and are looking at 2500/mo daycare for a few years. We could not afford to own property where we live, would have to relo to a lower COL city.

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u/Real_Old_Treat May 31 '23

People who say this have different definitions of livable. Overall, most people on Reddit grew up middle class or even wealthier and have certain standards for how they want to live. They're usually imagining living alone (rather than a multi generation home) and supporting a family while living in an area they love while keeping the hobbies they want. And there's nothing wrong with that. But there are a lot of people, even in VHCOL areas, who live and raise families on much less than 100k. It just comes down to what you need, what you're used to and what you prioritize

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u/TiredOldSoulgirl May 31 '23 edited Jun 01 '23

Buddy I’m an immigrant living in a medium-cost city in Canada and have been thriving and saving on 35k per year for the last year. This year I’m expecting to earn more but honestly, just do your finances yourself and see what works for you.

Edit to add - I’m in Ontario, and work two part time jobs, earning about $19 per hour on both. I work about 50 hours a week on my own schedule. My expenses are split with my partner, we live in a decent apartment and don’t own a car yet (was too expensive to get it last year, buying one this year before winter sets in.) we’re now moving to another city so I can go back to school and my partner is hoping to finally get a job in his field after his work experience with other Canadian companies. As immigrants that was our biggest challenge but we made it work & enjoyed learning about the work culture through service-jobs.

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u/The_Magical_Radical May 31 '23

Are those people confusing lifestyle costs with living wage? 100k/yr may not be enough to meet some people's lifestyles, but it absolutely is more than a living wage in all of the US.

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u/Realistic-Mongoose76 May 31 '23

Of course a 100 is livable. However what it is not is “rich.” It use to be, but is not anymore. I think that is what they mean.

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u/m00ntides May 31 '23

When I was 19, 20/hr was like being rich. When you're old you have to maybe support a spouse and child in which case 80k or so is like the minimum to not be struggling.

If you're in a dual income relationship i feel like in my area 120k total for both is doable but tight.

You need to pay hundreds a month for health insurance, save for emergencies. Pay off a car. Pay for health issues your insurance doesn't cover. Cover your bills between jobs for 3 months without using credit cards. Add in any kind of ambition like Have 20-60k sitting in the bank for a down payment by the time you're 30..., Buy your next laptop in cash. Etc. It adds up fast.

Most people are not talking about minimum to survive assuming you can use food stamps and welfare.

We are saying in order to be financially independent and not need aid like that the min income is a lot higher than you'd think.

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u/jellybelly326 May 31 '23

I make $52K and my husband makes $68K = $120K.

We have no kids, no credit card debt, no car payments. Our mortgage (960 square foot ranch) is $1,560 per month at a 2.5% interest rate, which is actually great in this economy (we bought in 2018 and refinanced in 2021.) We eat out once per week. We take a couple of local weekender vacations per year and one longer one (this year Grand Canyon/Vegas.) We budget $200 per month as "allowance" to spend as we want.

We do *okay* for ourselves, but it honestly still feels like we're spinning our wheels every week that I sit down to work on our budget. I genuinely do not know how other people do it in this economy with children.

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u/Fancy_Boysenberry_55 May 31 '23

I'm retired living very comfortably on 40k per year. I live in the Cleveland area so pretty affordable

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u/amellt33 May 31 '23

Ive been surviving in LA off of 30k so…..

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u/halffox102 May 31 '23

Out of touch redditors

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u/Training_Moment6814 May 31 '23

They live in areas where a 2bedroom apartment costs $4000 or more a month. They get $40k vehicles on credit at $500 a month and they have children who go to $1500 a month day cares. That is $72k a year just on childcare, rent, vehicle.

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u/Runescora May 31 '23

I do make $80,000 a year. My rent alone is around 35% of my monthly income and my landlord is charging below market. That’s one bill.

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u/MrAmazing3001 May 31 '23

My wife and I make a little over $60k combined. I don’t really know how some people are living, but it must be way above their means

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u/FollowThisNutter May 31 '23

How many people is that 100K covering? How many of them are children (expensive little things)? Is this in a crazy expensive place like San Francisco, New York, etc, or somewhere more reasonable?

There are places I don't think my spouse and I could live comfortably (meagrely, perhaps) on 100K, with no kids. But where we are, that's a comfortable income for 2-4 depending upon the exact city/suburb.

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u/Realistic_Box_9172 May 31 '23

You right though, people that make 100,000 plus are all over Reddit complaint they don't make enough and what kills me is it's a lot of the stay at home desk jobs that are being way overpaid. Think about how physical labor jobs that people are getting way under paid? It's crazy when I hear those people say they are under paid. It's a money management problem at that point

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u/Mundane-Till-424 May 31 '23

Those people are also being a bit dramatic and could be living above their means. They shouldn't be saying it's not liveable because people wake up every day and make it work with much much less. I think what they're referring to is their ability to live in comfort plus save and do all the things that other people don't ever get to even think about

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u/louvellalouvella May 31 '23

People with higher incomes tend to have higher expenses because they can, and then they feel like they don't have enough discretionary money left.

Also it's highly regional, $100k is different in the Bay Area versus Oklahoma. But also there are plenty of people living on less in the Bay Area.

If your standard of living includes owning a house, or having kids and sending them to daycare, or having a car payment, $100k gets eaten up fast.

I don't make $100k individually but my wife and I make $127k between both of us. When I was making $30k a year that would have seemed like a ridiculously high income to me. And we are doing pretty ok, because we rent and don't have kids. We can afford to save money and travel sometimes.

But we recently looked into buying a small condo and realized that if we did that we would not be able to travel or save money. And if we had kids, well, I don't know how we would even make that work.

But it's obnoxious when people who have never actually struggled say things like $100k is not liveable when TONS of people are living on so much less. Yes, even in high cost of living areas.

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u/demon_luvr May 31 '23

i make $98k, my rent is $1529 and i have to pay $1000/month in student loans. it’s like paying two rents.

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u/Illustrious-Oil-729 May 31 '23

We survived in Washington on 60K with a family of 4 and in Colorado on 80K with family of 5. Definitely wasn’t fun.. no vacations, no savings, lived month to month on bills, no extracurricular activities for kids. We were able to purchase a modest home in both locations, two cars, pets, so I guess I wouldn’t recommend, was stressful for many years, but it is doable.

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u/53mm-Portafilter May 31 '23

People conflate “livable” with “affording the lifestyle I feel entitled to”.

People are talking about $30k daycare. Newsflash, having two kids and living in Westchester is not what “livable wage” mean.

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u/missannthrope1 May 31 '23

The more money people make, the more they spend.

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u/[deleted] May 31 '23

[deleted]

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u/B4K5c7N May 31 '23

The new thing now is for Redditors to say that anything less than $500k a year is unlivable for a family.

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u/aftpanda2u May 31 '23

Depends where you live. Most of those posts you read are from people in high cost of living areas. For context, I live in socal and a 3 bedroom rental could easily run over $3200 a month. That's not even including utilities. For someone making low 100k that's pretty much your entire take home pay in just housing.

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u/ailee43 May 31 '23

Housing and food mostly. 100K is roughly 65k takehome.

Rent and mortgage in many locations is exceeding 2000 a month these days.

You're down to 41k

Childcare is between 20-30k

You're down to 11k

200 bucks a week for food, you're down to 600 dollars. Hope you dont have a car payment, any emergencies, or need clothes or medical care.

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u/blipsman May 31 '23

It depends on where you live, what your family structure is... for a single person in Arkansas, $100k might be an incredible income/lifestyle. If you live in San Francisco and have 2 kids, you'd be hard pressed to afford $4000 in rent and $4000 in daycare costs on $100k.

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u/AtrueLonelySoul May 31 '23

It just isn’t if you live in California. That won’t be enough for a family of anything! Apartment rent alone is about $2800 and that’s hard to find. Most go higher than that! Then you have other bills on top of it. Definitely not enough to pay bills, let alone put money away for retirement nor have a disposable income!

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u/psychgirl88 May 31 '23

I live in a HCOL a half hour outside of NYC for work reasons. I could move to a cheaper, red state, but I’m African-American. I have mental health issues so it’s best that I don’t have roommates. I have elderly parents who live near by. They are narcissists. However, my grandiose narcissistic dad is one of the minority who cashed out and retired quite well, so I believe their bs narcissism surprisingly reduced over the past couple of decades. I’m in semi-low contact with them. Although they live within a 20 minute drive, i know I would quickly revert back to the scapegoat role and it would fuck up all progress made towards independence and healing my CPTSD. My lifestyle of around $100k a year is enough to support me without factoring in student loans. I believe I could support a partner. I believe children would be stressful, but doable if my partner and I were resourceful. This is assuming the next president doesn’t paint the entire country red and brings back slavery.

Like most millennials, I don’t see myself affording retirement in this country. I have a tall order of going to a cheaper place where I would be accepted for being a dark skin person, equal rights for women, and LGBTQ friendly. Also, not cold (I’m looking at you, Canada).

No one knows the future, perhaps this country will get its shit together in the next couple of decades and it’ll go through a neo-renaissance period.

Honestly, I believe it depends on where you live, how resourceful you are, how much debt you have, what lifestyle you live, and what your streams of income look like. That’s going to be different for everyone. I’m living the millennial dream. However, I could see others also living in the same area who make $200k combined who have disabled children (as in more than one child) who need medical treatments, insurance rejects the treatments because freedom, and the parents have to pay out of pocket. That family who may live in a bigger house and clearly make more money than I will be financially ruined very quickly. $200k will never be enough. Like me, they most likely cannot leave the area due to the fact that the best doctors for the disability work between NYC and Philly. This is hypothetical of course.

Different situations.

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u/Billyxmac May 31 '23

Always have to balance this out with COL.

$100k in one city doesn't mean as much in another.

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u/TooManyBuns May 31 '23

I've lived from savings this past year. My main expense was rent, I've been living like a crusty hermit. It really depends on your lifestyle and budget.

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u/Ponsay May 31 '23

They have families, I'm guessing. I live in a very expensive area and 80-100 is definitely enough to live off of if you're single/have no kids.

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u/dontknowjackburton May 31 '23

You must starve so your elite overlords can have it all

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u/Sbeast86 May 31 '23

Livable wage changes drastically depending on where you live. I'm single with no kids in N Texas, and living very well on 100k. If i were married with kids, 100k wouldn't cut it.

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u/_particleman May 31 '23

There are so many studies being done and articles being published about how the new minimum wage should be $30/hour, and that's to meet basic needs.

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u/wadingthroughtrauma May 31 '23 edited May 31 '23

I don’t understand this either. I manage to live on 20k a year. It’s not easy, but it’s doable. I don’t make enough to save, unfortunately, but I have everything I need.

When I used to make 50k a year I was set. All I had to worry about were medical bills, which is a big expense, but still without that, the 50k was comfortable living, in an expensive county to boot.

When I hear people say that 100k isn’t a liveable wage I assume they live in the center of Manhattan or SanFrancisco, or they’re just really bad at managing their money.

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u/Elymanic May 31 '23

I'm in the heart of NYC at just around 52k